Communicating Essential Things

Submitted by Carolyn on October 21, 2009 - 9:15am
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Carolyn Arends,Love Was Here First,LWHF

Hi All,

Just a quick note to let you know that ChristianMusicToday has just published an in-depth interview about the making of LOVE WAS HERE FIRST.  You can read it HERE.

Peace to you today!

Carolyn

Comments

Submitted by Reese Watt (not verified) on November 8, 2009 - 5:27pm.

Carolyn comments

I'm a big fan of Carolyn's, although I haven't yet heard her new CD. I was surprised to read in the Christianity Today column that she had written these lyrics:

'There are no accidents' / But we can't account for all life's randomness / So maybe some things are not orchestrated." And the chorus: "I'm not sure that God moves everything / Like pawns in a chess game, or puppets on a string / And I can't determine just whether or not / He causes or troubles or He makes them stop."

With all due respect, this seems strange to me. What if Jesus had gotten struck by lightening, accidentally, before he could die on the cross? Or what if Mary were bit by a poisonous snake while out for a morning stroll before she had Jesus? There are an infinite number of "minor" things that could happen, or "accidents" that might occur and change the entire course of history. I just don't think that God can control the "big things" in history unless he also controls the "little things" as well. To me, God's control is all or nothing, and I don't see how anybody can really get around that.

Just some thoughts to consider...

Submitted by admin on November 9, 2009 - 10:32am.

Hi Reese -- Great to hear

Hi Reese -- Great to hear from you!  How are you my friend?  Still writing?

I understand your concern about the lyrics -- as I mentioned in that interview, I know they're controversial.  I am not suggesting that God never moves in history, and certainly not that He is not sovereign.  However, it seems clear to me that our free will and the long-spun effects of sin mean that sometimes bad stuff just happens.  In my view, we should not see every cancer diagnosis etc. as God's direct action in our lives - and I am concerned that to do so can distort our understanding of God's character.  Why He intervenes in some events and not others is an area of mystery -- but what is crystal clear is that He is always with us and can always redeem whatever we are going through.

I know there are people (perhaps you) who think that there is no detail God does not orchestrate.  I respect that view but can't share it, and I don't think it undermines God's sovereignty to suggest that He sometimes allows the decisions we make (as the human race) to run their course.  I am just glad He is an ever-present help in times of trouble!

I want to acknowlege again, though, that I am working in the area of mystery.  I am not trying to offer up an air-tight theodicy, I'm simply wrestling with the mystery.  I've become convinced in my walk with the Lord that He is big enough to handle our questions, and, I think, He'd rather we try to engage with Him in all our messy confusion than nail everything down and stop grappling with Him.  (Wow, did I just mix my metaphors or what?!)

Anyway, thanks for engaging with the lyrics.  That's everything I hope for!

Blessings,

Carolyn

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on November 9, 2009 - 9:07pm.

More thoughts

Carolyn,

I probably wouldn't have noticed the mixed metaphor if you hadn't mentioned it, but after I noticed it, you do convey an impressive feat. While wrestling a mystery, you still are able to hold a hammer and nail something done, all the while grappling with God himself. You put Jacob to shame. :>)

I didn't take you to say that God was absent from history. I inferred from your comments that you believe God is guiding the big things, but that many of the little things are not directly under his control. As you said in your post, "sometimes bad stuff just happens". But I didn't really read in your post a response to my question. And that is this: How could God control the big things unless he also controls the little things?

I think it was Ray Bradbury who wrote the short story about a guy that traveled back in time and accidentally stepped on a butterfly. When he returned to his own time, he found out that the results of a major national election had swung the other way, just due to the butterfly that he stepped on. That is fantasy, of course, but I think his point is valid. Any one of an infinite number of small ocurrences could have a huge impact on the course of history.

So, I would be curious to hear your response to the question of how God can control the big events without also controlling the small events.

I'm glad to hear you're still putting out music. I'll plan to get your new CD shortly.

As for myself, I haven't written much lately.

Take care,

Reese

Submitted by admin on November 9, 2009 - 10:48pm.

Hey Reese -- thanks for the

Hey Reese -- thanks for the continued thoughts.  I don't think I would distinguish between "big" and "little" things.  I actually have a pretty strong conviction that God's in the details.  But I think there are things both big and small that He leaves up to us for now, and other things both big and small that He, for his own sovereign reasons, intervenes in.  If I could, I'd ask Him exactly how that works, but that will have to wait until we're face to face (and at the point I'll probably just say "Oh.  Never mind ...")

Anyway -- this is an issue I'll be grappling with till I die, and I'm grateful to hear your thoughts.

Oh -- and why no writing?  Get on it wouldya?!  :-)

Peace,

Carolyn

Submitted by Reese watt (not verified) on November 10, 2009 - 10:54am.

Ongoing thoughts

OK. So I inferred incorrectly that you believed God worked in "big" things, but not "little" things. That was my misunderstanding.

In your most recent post, you said,
"But I think there are things both big and small that He leaves up to us for now, and other things both big and small that He, for his own sovereign reasons, intervenes in."

I fully agree with that. That statement implies that he monitors all things. In some cases, he steps in to intervene and in some cases, he allows things to proceed according to cause and effect.

To me, that is different than saying that "sometimes bad things just happen"? That is, I don't consider a "bad thing" that happens after God has considered its occurrence and allows it to proceed to be a thing that "just happens".

I know you're concerned about accurately understanding the character of God. Consider three situations:
1) A toddler touches a hot stove while the father is in the next room watching TV
2) A father, in the kitchen, allows a toddler to touch a hot stove so that he'll learn a valuable lesson
3) A father, wishing to teach his toddler a lesson, physically grabs his hand and touches it against a hot stove

In this case, the "bad thing" for the toddler is touching the hot stove.

I would say that, in case (1), "a bad thing just happened".

I would say that, in case (2), "a father allowed a bad thing to happen"

I would say that, in case (3), "a father caused a bad thing to happen"

Of the three, the only one that seems consistent with the character of God is case (2). If you are using the phrase "sometimes bad things just happen" to describe something similar to case (2), then I guess we're probably just using different words to describe the same thing.

Regardless, I appreciate your willingness to struggle publicly and to say things that your audience might disagree with.

Rich Mullins use to do that. He wrote several things that bothered me, but he could also move me to tears and to profound joy. I think think one tends to come with the other.

I probably had 5-10 conversations with him after he had became a successful songwriter. The problem was that I could never remember the questions I wanted to ask him during those conversations, so they often ended up being pretty trivial. So, I appreciate your taking the time to discuss these thoughts in this blog.

Submitted by Louise Paris (not verified) on October 25, 2009 - 4:36pm.

Back by the choir room

It was good to meet you today behnind the stage(I was wearing a long red coat). I'm sorry I got distracted by my husband, and left you standing there, or walking alone due to me having mainly food on my mind (and my husband was going to provide the funds for that food).
Lord willing, I want to pick up the "Seize the Day CD" as well as your newly released CD & your book, as I didn't have the funds for them today. I loved your song about not having to say Goodbye along with the one about hope not being in this world. I am praying for you.

P.S. My e-mail address will shortly be changing (Nov. 4th) I will e-mail you with the new address when I write you to tell you how much I enjoyed the book & the new CD('cuz I know I will)

Love in Jesus from Louise Paris

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